Rep. Massie tells Tucker Carlson each GOP member of Congress has ‘AIPAC Babysitter’

Republican Party is Israel First, not America First

U.S. Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Kentucky) spoke up about the oversized influence of Israel over his party in an interview with Tucker Carlson last week.

Really, what Massie said to Carlson wasn’t new. It’s been obvious for a long time, and its publicly done through the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC).

However, the American people have been willfully ignorant and have looked the other way. But, at least for now, more Americans are receptive of hearing this now.

So, I wanted to provide a transcript for the portion of the interview in which Massie discusses AIPAC which he describes “AIPAC babysitters” assigned to every Republican except him. Here’s the video:

There is a related discussion beginning at around the 9:30-mark of the video in which Massie said there have been about 20 votes on Ukraine packages since 2014, which he voted against every one. There have been somewhere around 30 votes on Israel and the Middle East over the last 7 months, again a no vote from Massie on each one. There have been 15 or 16 votes related to Israel over the last month, including the anti-First Amendment bill that criminalizes portions of the Bible.

https://sethhancock.substack.com/p/you-might-be-an-antisemite-if

The AIPAC discussion begins around the 14-minute mark when Carlson asked how Republicans square their votes. The following is the transcript for about the next 20 minutes of the discussion:

Massie: I think their voters let them get away with it. I mean, they don't have to square it.

Carlson: Well, why would they want to do something like that?

Massie: Because there's a lot of pressure in Congress to vote for these things. And our Republican leadership thinks they're so smart. You know, we're in an election year, and they want to bring up issues. They want to put them in front of Congress and make us vote on them, whether they're going anywhere in the Senate or not. And they want to split the Democrats. They want to show that Republicans are united and then split the Democrats. That's one of the reasons they do it. Another reason they do it is there's a foreign interest group called AIPAC that's got the ear of this current Speaker and demanded 16 votes in April on Israel or the Middle East. We haven't had 16 votes in April on the United States in Congress.

Carlson: So, what's AIPAC?

Massie: AIPAC is the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. And, they didn't start out as a PAC in the sense of a political action committee, but now they have a political action committee. Ostensibly, it's a group of Americans who lobby on behalf of Israel. They're for anything Israel. And they're a very effective lobbying group. They get in there, they try to get me to write a white paper as a candidate, for instance, for Congress.

Carlson: On what?

Massie: On Israel. And I wouldn't do it. And they said, ‘why,’ and I'm like, I don't do homework for lobbyists, right? I'm like, I didn't like writing term papers at college. I'm not writing one for you.

Carlson: What did they say?

Massie: They said, ‘oh, well here, just copy Rand Paul’s term paper and put your name on it. We'll accept that.’ And I'm like, no, I'm still not cribbing somebody else's homework to do homework. I'm not turning in my homework for you.

Carlson: *laughter*

Massie: You're laughing. But you know what? I bet I may be the only Republican in Congress who hasn't done homework for AIPAC, and it's just what it is. It's conditioning. They want you to do something very simple and benign. And, you know, for them, they don't really grade your term paper. They just want to know that you'll do something for them. And if you'll do something for them as a candidate, you're more likely to do something for them as a congressman when you get in there. So, this my rift. It started out in 2012 when I refused to turn in an Israel term paper.

Carlson: How did they respond to that?

Massie: Well, they kind of got in my race a little too late there in the beginning. And because it was hard to tell that I was actually going to win. And when they saw I was going to win, that's when they tried to get me to do the term paper. They didn't have a political action committee at the time. They couldn't spend hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars against me at that time. It was just sort of like a whisper campaign to try to, hey, don't vote for him, blah, blah, blah.

Carlson: Why?

Massie: Because at that point, they sensed I wouldn't do what they wanted when I got to Congress.

Carslon: But what did they whisper against you? What were they saying about you?

Massie: Well, they would do it through, for instance, churches, evangelical churches. They've got an organization called Christians United for Israel, which sort of co-opted evangelicals. People think it's a grassroots movement in Kentucky. It's actually a top-down movement from AIPAC, so that people who aren't even Jewish will feel like they've got to support Israel no matter what. And even if it's a secular state that funds abortions, they just sort of forget that part, and we've just got to fund Israel. So, they have a network. So, it's more than just about the money.

Carslon: So, you get elected, despite their efforts. And then what happens? Do you talk to them after that?

Massie: And by the way, let me just put a little footnote here. I'm not against Israel. I've never voted to sanction Israel. I've never said anything particularly, you know, critical of Israel, other than, for instance, right now they're bombing. They've killed 1% of the civilian population in Gaza. That's concerning to me.

Carlson: You get elected is 2012. Do you hear from them again?

Massie: I vote my conscience, which they won't tolerate. So, they ran with their 501C4 before they had a SuperPAC. They were running educational advocacy ads against me saying that I'm bad on Israel. They didn't say don't vote for. They just said he's  a bad guy. And so I said, alight, well, you're not welcome in my office anymore because for years I invited them into my office. Let's talk this through. Let me explain to you. I'm a libertarian-leaning Republican. I don't vote for foreign aid for anybody. So don't be offended when I don't vote for your foreign aid. I don't vote for wars anywhere. So, don't be offended if I tell you that I'm for free speech, even if it's abhorrent. And, you know, we used to talk, but now they're banned from my office. The situation went from bad to worse. This election cycle, they spent $400,000 against me, $90,000 last fall, running TV ads in my district and Facebook ads and whatnot, trying to equate me with ‘The Squad.’ And then, this most recently, in fact, as I'm speaking to you today, even though my election is over, they’re still running hundreds of thousand dollars of negative ads.

Carlson: It's a little weird, though, because, as you said, you're probably the only Republican in the House who hasn't done homework for them, who isn't on their side. And that's okay. I mean, you can have, you know, you're a libertarian oriented Republican from northern Kentucky. You're probably not going to single handedly determine our foreign policy. I think you should, but you don't. And you're not going to. So, why do they care? Why don't just let Thomas Massie be Thomas Massie in Northern Kentucky? Like, why? Why the need to crush you?

Massie: I don't know. I think it's they don't want one horse out of the barn. If one person starts speaking the truth, they're afraid it could be contagious, perhaps. Or it's like a new car. They go to Mike Johnson, and they say, ‘we want a Cadillac Escalade, with pearl white paint. And here's, you know, here's the rims we want.’ And Mike Johnson puts that bill on the floor. It passes with a unanimous vote, except for one guy votes no. And I think they feel like it's a scratch on their car. They wanted a brand new car, and it got scratched by this guy named Massie. They were going to drive it over to the Senate and ask for unanimous consent. But now the senators are saying, ‘wait, what? This wasn't unanimous in the House. Why should we do it unanimously in the Senate?’ And it starts raising questions. And I think that's why they get mad.

Carlson: What I find interesting is it's not just that they disagree with your views, which they do. And I think they have an absolute right to disagree with anybody's views. We all do. But they've called you a bigot and they call you an antisemite and say you're a hater and try to destroy your character. That seems like a very different level of response to me.

Massie: Right, there’s no need to do that. I'm not antisemitic. I don't have an antisemitic hair in my head. Okay. It's. I mean, I don't like AIPAC anymore. Like, I used to be neutral toward AIPAC, right. But I have no antagonistic feelings toward Jewish people. I think I'm probably the least xenophobic person in Congress. I mean, these are the guys that my colleagues want to sanction. Everybody, you know, declare them terrorist states, you know, come up with these strongly worded resolutions. I don't vote for any of that crap, right. Unless somebody does harm to me, I'm not going to call them anything. So, I get called names just for staying out of all of this political posturing.

Carlson: That's disgusting, though, isn't it? Attacking your character. They can disagree with your views, but to call you, like, the worst thing you can be in America. Like, that's disgusting.

Massie: You know, yeah, I have a thick skin. And here's the good news, Tucker. My constituents aren't falling for it. Two weeks ago, I just had a primary and got 76% of the vote with AIPAC running hundreds of thousand dollars of ads. So, it's not working against me. I think it's shortsighted, on their side to do this. They're just burning money, but they're trying to make an example of me.

Carlson: But they're also exposing their weakness.

Massie: I think they are. I think they've exposed a real weakness here. And, you know, it used to be just me voting against some of these resolutions, but recently where they tried to ban passages in the New Testament, I think we got like almost two dozen Republicans who said, ‘wait, hold on there.’

Carlson: Can I ask  a question? There's a fundamental question. Som the Biden administration has put a bunch of people in jail for violating something called FARA, the Foreign Agent Registration Act or 1936-ish. It's been on the books for, you know, 90 years. And it's never been enforced ever until recently, until really the Trump era and Biden era. But the law requires people who lobby on behalf of foreign governments to register. It’s that simple. And this is the largest lobby in the United most effective lobby in United States on behalf of a foreign government. Are they registered with Fara?

Massie: They’re not, but they should be.

Carlson: Well, how can that how can that be? How can they put Paul Manafort in jail, which they did on a Fara violation and a bunch of other people in jail on FARA violations. But the largest and most effective and most feared foreign lobby working for a foreign government doesn't have to register under the law? That's insane.

Massie: Oh, man, don't make me take their side. But I'll explain as best as I can what they're arguing.

Carlson: I mean, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you should take their side, I don't know.

Massie: Well, I'm going to agree with you in a second, but let me at least offer what I think is their argument. They would say we are Americans. You know, the members of AIPAC are Americans, and they have the right to free speech.

Carlson: Paul Manafort is an American, right?

Massie: Right, yeah, so there's the good rebuttal is FARA applies not to foreigners but to agents of foreign principles.

Carlson: It’s Americans lobbying on behalf of foreign governments.

Massie: AIPAC is exactly what FARA is meant for. Now, they would say we have a First Amendment, right? Okay, well, I agree with you there. But we also have election laws and the disclosure, right. FARA doesn't say you can't say Thomas Massie’s, you know, an ignorant hillbilly. You're allowed to say that if you want to, but we just want to check where your money's coming from. Tell us where it's coming from, what you're spending it on, and if you are lobbying on behalf of a foreign country. So, they should be. Now to your point, they should be registered with FARA. This is what FARA is. Where there's gray area is an American representing a foreign country. Let's look and see if you're getting any money from that foreign country. Are you a dual citizen with that foreign country? Are you being directed by, for instance, is Netanyahu speaking to your group, advising you on your next move? Are you getting money from the Military Industrial Complex, like because to understand AIPAC, I think it's easiest to model them as a military industrial lobby. Like their biggest thing is they want more equipment, more military equipment from the United States going to Israel. In fact, when they used to be allowed in my office, the argument they would make is, ‘oh, we're just stimulating the US Military Industrial Complex’ because every single penny of the $3.8 billion that they nominally get, now they're getting way more than that, but that Israel normally gets goes to US military contractors. Now, that didn't make me warm and fuzzy, okay. But that is their argument. And if you notice what they advocate for, I think sometimes they advocate for things that even Israelis wouldn't advocate for. Like, they would be okay with a war with Iran, like an all-out, apocalyptic war with Iran, whereas there are people in Israel saying, whoa, hold on a second. We'd rather not have a war with Iran. But AIPAC does things that lead us in that direction. And so they're kind of like what the NRA is to gun owners, AIPAC is to Israel, or what the Farm Bureau is to farmers, AIPAC is to Israel.

Carlson: It represents a faction.

Massie: Right, they represent a faction, but usually a corporate faction that, and they're using the imprimatur of grass roots that they've diluted or confused into bullying congressmen. And the NRA does that and Farm Bureau does that. I'm picking on some, you know, other right wing groups here.

Carlson: For sure, and by the way, I think there probably are a lot of things that AIPCAC is for that I'm for, and Farm Bureau, NRA, same thing. It's just the idea of a foreign government playing in our political campaigns openly.

Massie: Openly in that they are showing you they're doing it. But opaquely in that you can't track it because they're not registered.

Carlson: Is there any other Republican who has your views on this?

Massie: Well, I have Republicans who come to me on the floor and say, ‘I wish I could vote with you today. Yours is the right vote, but I would just take too much flak back home.’ And I have Republicans who come to me and say, ‘that's wrong what AIPAC is doing to you, let me talk to my AIPAC person.’ By the way, everybody but me has an AIPAC person.”

Carlson: What does that mean? An AIPAC person?

Massie: It's like you're babysitter, your AIPAC babysitter who is always talking to you for AIPAC. They're probably a constituent in your district, but they are, you know, firmly embedded in AIPAC.

Carlson: Every member has something like this?

Massie: Every. I don't know how it works on the Democrat side. But that's how it works on the Republican side. And when they come to D.C., you go have lunch with them and they've got your cell number and you have conversations with them.

Carlson: That's absolutely crazy.

Massie: I've had four members of Congress say, ‘I'll talk to my AIPAC person.’ And like that's clearly what we call them, my AIPAC guy. ‘I'll talk to my AIPAC guy and see if I can get them to, you know, dial those ads back.’

Carlson: Why, have I never heard this before?

Massie: It doesn't benefit anybody. Why would they want to tell their constituents that they've basically got a buddy system with somebody who's representing a foreign country? It doesn't benefit the congressman for people to know that. So, they're not going to tell you that.

Carlson: Have you seen any other country do anything like this like Russia? Russia obviously determines the outcome of our elections. We keep hearing that. Does anyone have a Putin guy that they talk to?

Massie: Not only do they not have a Putin guy. Look, they don't have a Britain guy. They don't have an Australian guy. They, you know, they don't have a Germany dude. Like it's, the only country that does this that has somebody like uniform. I guarantee there's some spreadsheet at AIPAC where… the dude who's matched up with the congressman is there and then all the congressman's votes on the issue. ‘Oh, has the congressman been to Israel.’ They pay for trips for congressmen and their spouses to go to Israel. I'm not the only Republican who hasn't taken the AIPAC trip to Israel, but I'm probably one of a dozen that hasn't taken that trip, and the other ones just haven't got around to it.

Carslon: What's the trip like? Do You know?

Massie: It's kind of like, I think vacationing. You go see the wall, you go see the, you know, the sights, things like that.